Podcast Ep190 Shawn Satterfield
Didrik Johnck: Before we get into this episode, just a quick announcement. Our host Erik Weihenmayer invites you, yeah you, to join him for the What's Your Everest event. What is it? Well, once a year people gather and hike up a mountain. What's the big deal, you ask? Well, this is for everyone, regardless of ability or background.
Some might call it an adaptive hike. Ever see a wheelchair climb a mountain? At What's Your Everest, you will. You'll join a team with a common purpose, inspire people to turn their challenges into changes, tackle obstacles head on, and work together to get to the top. This year the hike starts at the foot of the Flatirons outside of Boulder, Colorado on September 7th.
Learn more at NoBarriersPodcast.com and click on events. Now onto the show.
Welcome everyone to Erik Weihenmayer's No Barriers podcast. In a moment, you'll join him in the studio with guest Shawn Satterfield. Now, Shawn reached out to the pod recently looking for a little insight from Erik on a project. It's called the Shine Music Festival. She founded it in 2019, formed a non profit, assembled a team, and next month will be their fourth annual event.
With that in mind, we put Erik in the hot seat for a bit and let Shawn ask the questions. Some pressing questions about Erik's experience growing the No Barriers organization. You'll hear his ideas and advice on running a non profit, leadership, and sustaining a mission driven organization. So what's this music festival all about?
It's a visionary project that will make you rethink how we approach inclusivity in our communities. Every sensory experience is accessible to all, from colorblind glasses and braille t shirts to acoustic performances and adaptive technologies. Shawn is revolutionizing how we experience and connect through music.
Curious? Ready to dive in? Awesome. Let's do this. I'm producer Didrik Johnck, and this is the No Barriers podcast.
Erik Weihenmayer: It's easy to talk about the successes, but what doesn't get talked about enough is the struggle. My name is Erik Weihenmayer. I've gotten the chance to ascend Mount Everest, to climb the tallest mountain in every continent, to kayak the Grand Canyon, and I happen to be blind. It's been a struggle to live what I call a no barriers life, to define it, to push the parameters of what it means.
And part of the equation is diving into the learning process and trying to illuminate the universal elements that exist along the way. And that unexplored terrain between those dark places we find ourselves in the summit exists a map. That map, that way forward, is what we call No Barriers.
Hey everyone, this is Erik Weihenmayer. Welcome to the No Barriers podcast. And, uh, we got an awesome guest on today. Thanks Shawn Satterfield, who's the founder of Shine Music Festival. which is right here in Denver, in the Front Range of Colorado. Pretty exciting, and we're going to learn all about that, Shawn.
And, I know you have some questions for me, too, and we'll save those for the end of the podcast, because I am so curious about all your work and all the challenges that you've had and the way you've evolved the festival. in the last three years, so maybe we'll do that for a half an hour and then you can turn the table because I know you have a lot of questions for me about my experience with nonprofits.
Shawn Satterfield: Yes, absolutely.
Erik Weihenmayer: Fantastic. Well, it's good to hear your voice. so you have a broader mission with the Shine Festival, which is really cool. You're not just putting on a music festival, so tell us about the broader mission behind it.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah, it's really about inclusivity and accessibility. It's 2024, people. No pun intended, but we need to break down barriers and music is a unique platform that at least just for a few hours our Differences don't matter, right? The color of our skin, our socioeconomic status, you name it. It doesn't matter. We're just there to share in a collective experience. So I use the platform of music to create barrier free spaces by Adaptive Technology, Comprehensive Accessibility Plans, and just a lot of planning, and and create barrier free, no ADA section spaces so that we can all revel in the power of live music together, and then ultimately leave there knowing and realizing that we're so much more alike than we are different.
Erik Weihenmayer: Shine unites people of all abilities and backgrounds in a transformative music experience. Very cool, right? How do you create that universal space, first of all? Because I know a lot of the language that you talk about is this universal space within your festival. What exactly does that mean? What should people be striving for when they're thinking about, building an event of their own?
Yeah,
Shawn Satterfield: I think it's just about looking away from the minimalistic ADA laws. I think there are a lot of organizations out there that just use that as a checkbox and say, great, we have a ramp. Great, we have this. It's about, you know, thinking about it from all areas, from all aspects. So whether you have a visual impairment, whether you're deaf or low hearing or you have a neurological or you're neurodiverse, you name it.
And we just try and think all the way through from what that experience would be like from the moment you find out about SHINE all the way to experiencing the event itself. And we just think about different ways. We obviously engage the disability community and asking their input. How would you like to have this?
How would you like to do this? And we just we navigate. Shine Music Festival is then kind of the testing ground, right? So we spend an entire year of thinking of new ways to do things and then we implement them that year, what worked, what didn't work, and we build upon the things that worked and then try and find other ways around things that we could have done better.
Erik Weihenmayer: Yeah, Didrik, my producer and friend, he's always like, oh, don't go too far down into the weeds. But my mind is so in the weeds right now, because I want to know how to do this. Like, I want an instruction manual. You know what I mean? Yeah. tell me the nitty gritty. folks show up in wheelchairs. How do you make, Like, give me an example of how you make that space inclusive and, create this kind of unified atmosphere.
Shawn Satterfield: we don't have Or a blind
Erik Weihenmayer: person, or anyone, I guess. Yeah,
Shawn Satterfield: yeah. we don't have ADA sections, first of all. There is no such thing at Shine Music Festival. We just create various different types of spaces.
One of the things, we have adaptive technology, we have, the last two years, two years we have had, three years, we have had, full body sound, which is a device, like a TENS device that, takes the sound from the soundboard and through electromagnetic energy, transmits that music, or a vibrotactile. For somebody who's hard of hearing? yeah. It would just, everything we do is amazing. And everything we do is for everyone. it's not oh, if you aren't Deaf or hard of hearing then you can't do this because if you can hear like when I first tried it I ugly cried I mean really ugly cried. To experience music that I love in a whole new way and
Erik Weihenmayer: You can actually feel it kind of vibrating through your body.
Shawn Satterfield: It's not just the vibration It's like every nuance so you can feel all the different. This the horns will feel a different way than the vocals and the guitar It's pretty crazy We were really bummed we wanted Not Impossible Labs, I don't know if you're familiar with them or not.
Erik Weihenmayer: Of course, Mick Ebling's a good friend of ours.
Shawn Satterfield: Oh, so we ran into, connected about a month ago for the first time and we really, it's like my dream to have them be a part of Shine, we just, Which I'm sure we'll get into, the whole logistics of raising money. You Know, it's still, it's adding money to our bottom line in a short amount of time, Of course. I don't know if we're going to be able to pull that off this year, but that, last year we brought closed captioning glasses in. Yeah, tell me about those. Those were crazy. I loved watching grown men cry. So, it was, um, they're these glasses that x ray glasses did and It was the first time they were ever at a music festival, and we tested it out to see if the lyrics from the stage would come across, and they did. now
Erik Weihenmayer: The lyrics actually are written across the glasses.
Shawn Satterfield: yeah. Wow. Yeah, it was so magical, because not only are you witnessing that, but your mind just starts racing, and you're thinking, Wow, this breaks down language barriers, this breaks down just, You know, individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing and they use ASL have to stand up front where the ASL interpreter is and then that means all their friends have to stand up front and get their ears blown out by the speakers.
This means that they could be anywhere at all in the venue and still be get the lyrics, still know what's happening. yeah, it was magical. And that's what's really fun is we just try new things and, and, new devices. And there's a lot of technologies out there that people don't even know about.
This year, oh my gosh, I'm really excited. We have a new partner this year called Enchroma. The blind, the colorblind sunglasses, uh, colorblind glasses, and so yeah, so they're bringing... we're gonna have a whole bunch of the colorblind glasses, the low vision glasses, and the color Enhancing glasses for individuals that don't have a visual impairment And we're going to, if you think about it, at a light show, when you go to a concert and there's all the different lights, and they can't see the red and the green, which I went to three concerts in the last four days, and I was, every time the stage was all red or all green, I went, oh, I wonder what they're seeing, because I just really didn't know a lot about being colorblind, and, so we're really excited to do this.
have people for the first time. Again, it's, they haven't ever done this at a concert before. So I love that Shine is going to be once again the first festival to actually look at making, whether it's colorblind or color enhancing as an opportunity. Yeah, so I'm really excited.
Erik Weihenmayer: A lot of groundbreaking stuff here.
Now, what about my blind brethrens here? audio description? because sometimes a blind person might want to know what's happening on stage, what people are wearing, that kind of thing, huh?
Shawn Satterfield: Yes, and that was something that,we haven't found a partner for that yet. It was something, that we were looking into and we still just really haven't found someone, because we thought it would be really great to have not just an ASL interpreter, but someone, so we have awesome headphones that are connected to the soundboard, but we could also connect some of them to a direct feed from someone who is explaining what's going on And so we're there we're close to being there and maybe we'll pull it off before this time, but yeah,
Erik Weihenmayer: You should reach out to if you haven't already This great organization, for profit company called AIRA, A I R A, They have this amazing service where it's like a concierge service for the blind.
And, so you just, through your phone, Somebody could be narrating what's happening. So you might look into Aira, that would be really cool. Oh, there you go. Because they could set up your whole venue and have Aira agents on hand ready to describe what's happening to the blind. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, let me know, I can help you kind of connect with the right people. Yeah, I know this is perfect. This is like step by step, right? This is like a work in progress as you learn and evolve, right?
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah, I mean, there's nothing it's sad but there's nothing like shine music festival in anywhere in the world and we have you know went to Guinness Book of World Records and they spent a couple of months and came back and said you're right, nothing like this exists and so But there's not really anything to pull from Right? It's really difficult when everything that you do is made from the ground up. There's no, just no one who's ever tried anything like it before. are you writing that?
Erik Weihenmayer: Back to this textbook, are you writing that manual?
Are you writing all this stuff down,copious notes so that you can Yeah, because that's going to be so helpful for the next group coming.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah.
Erik Weihenmayer: trying to make things accessible and inclusive.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah. It's just, it's a huge, massive Google Drive of notes and documents. And we also do surveys at the end of every, um, we send them out and ask people to do this quick survey.
And one of them is, if you identify as someone with a disability, please, you know, we'd appreciate you answering these following questions. And last year we scored 10 out of 10 on accessibility. So even though we look at it and go, Oh, we could have done so much better. I think that, you know, my favorite quote.
"Thank you for giving me the gift of a music festival that I was able to navigate on my terms and my timing. It was the first time in my life I've ever been able to do something like this without the need of a sighted person." And that, that's what keeps me moving.
Erik Weihenmayer: That's amazing. For the blind especially, just getting there, you know, and just finding your seat. I mean, all that stuff is just so intimidating, right?
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah, and we just have so many volunteers and so much I think that we've really done. Well, I mean our t shirts were the only Um music festival that has braille on our t shirts we have all of our vendors have large print and braille menus. This year we have Ted Tkwitchy's very first public display of the multi sensory art exhibit that he worked in conjunction with Andy Warhol Foundation and Redline.
And it's the photo along with a 3D printing of the photo and then a QR code where you can scan it and the artist is telling you about the photo. So you can experience it in three ways. So I think we've really kind of dove into that. I don't know if it was just because there was more technology out there for us to, that was easily readable for us to find, and, and maybe that's why, but, I think we've really done a, a very good job.
I would say that, but I also think we need to do some more education of, A lot of individuals that are blind don't need ADA seating. It's that they really can't if someone backs into them, you know, it's the, it's the hills at some of the venues, right, where you're on the lawn and you bump into someone who is blind and you could not, they'll lose their balance and can fall.
So it's also this kind of, it's a really tough situation because music festivals can be chaotic. So how do you, yeah, because there's a, how do you educate?
Erik Weihenmayer: It's a little mosh pit kind of thing. A lot of people dancing and bumping together.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah. And then, by,
Erik Weihenmayer: I guess that only applies for. That only applies for some blind people. You could knock me over, I bet.
Shawn Satterfield: No, I don't think so. I don't think so. Maybe they need to all go into some kind of boot camp, some Erik boot camp.
Erik Weihenmayer: Erik Weihenmayer boot camp before they go to the Shine Festival.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah, exactly.
Erik Weihenmayer: And the city gave you a proclamation saying this is like Shine Music Day, August 27th, at least one year, So, yeah, that was crazy. That's really cool. So yeah, you're getting some good recognition on what you're doing.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah. You know, it's,it's definitely a question I'm gonna flip back on you here in, in that, it's really difficult. it's, um, especially when nothing like it ha happens anywhere else, you would think that us finding sponsors would be really easy.
When you think about all the things that we could have been doing from an accessibility standpoint, one of the biggest barriers that we have, or the reasons that we haven't implemented them, is we spend 90 percent of our time finding money. I had to drain my 401k and my savings account because I'm, you know, Well, that was, that's my fault for just, uh, I got, I'm really passionate about things.
And when I realized that this was my purpose in life, I just jumped. I just went, there was no, oh, how, let's research of how to do this. I didn't do that. I just jumped. But yeah.
Erik Weihenmayer: So that's one of the major, Challenges fundraising. Right.it's, yeah, I'm surprised too. I would think that this would be something that a lot of companies, 'cause it's so cutting edge.
I mean, companies love cutting edge things. They love new things, they new love, new ideas. yeah, I think just, yeah, persistence. you seem like a very charismatic person, so Yeah. You just have to sort of,I think. I know we're diving ahead a little bit, but the smartest thing I ever did with No Barriers, my organization, this movement was surrounding myself with people who are a lot smarter than me.
I said, if we're going to have a board and we're going to grow this thing, we have to have like really smart people who know how to grow things. Know how to connect with sponsors, know how to raise money. And so I think part of it is just really thinking about that team around you because you can't do everything,
but yeah, if you look hard enough, you'll find passionate people who are experts in different areas and especially in the ideas of how to grow, movements and grow ideas.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah, it's finding those resources, right? that's, and I'm, and I have to, I have to admit, I, and I'm assuming you can relate in a way.
I, I had to learn, I should have, before I started it, learned how to become an advocate, what it meant to be an advocate, what it meant to be an ally. I don't have a disability. And, and I get asked that question all the time, why did you do this? and it was. I guess the real quick answer to that is, if I can do it, then what's the excuse for anyone else, right?
There are organizations out there that have the funding, the resources, and the power to implement something like what Shine Music Festival is doing instantly, worldwide, and they're not, so That's the whole thing, but yeah, finding those and so I'm growing Shine while also learning about how to how to run a nonprofit and It's
Erik Weihenmayer: You have people with different kinds of challenges that have experienced this festival and have benefited from it and praised how amazing it is so that would be a good start just bringing those representatives on board and having them be your biggest advocates, being, being your biggest cheerleaders running, going out in the community and saying, well, how impactful this is.
That, that could help bring in attention and money too.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah. 100%.
Erik Weihenmayer: Yeah. Yeah. You got to. You got to get that power team.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah, Now accepting applications. I imagine
Erik Weihenmayer: you go crazy. You go crazy if you try to do it all on your own.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah, I mean and you have I had to though for at the beginning right because it was in my head and right It's really difficult, especially like handing over a you know sending someone a digital pdf and trying to explain what we're doing in written word is does not work.
It does not work. So it takes a conversation and getting people on the phone. And, so yeah, I unfortunately had to wear a lot of hats. I still wear a lot of hats. but every day, every year I feel like I get to remove one. I get to, I find someone who's willing to take on that hat. So I'll get there.
Erik Weihenmayer: I think another piece, is, and tell me if I'm blathering too much here, but, the idea that sometimes a really driven person like yourself or myself, you think,you gotta do this all on your own.
It's all on your shoulders. And I think in order to make this idea sustainable and keep growing year after year, you have to find a way to make yourself obsolete in a way. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, just keep working to, to shift responsibilities as much as you can, So that you can free yourself up to do the thing that, that you love doing maybe, which is maybe being an advocate for the festival or whatever it is, the piece that you love.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah. Oh, I, it's definitely the number one goal right now. I love talking to people like you and educating people on thinking outside of those boundaries, uh,that's what I love to do about this. I love watching people get it. That moment they finally understand. and I see it all the time when I'm at Shine, when the festival is going on and
Erik Weihenmayer: Tell me how, what that would look like. Just see it in your mind at a Shine festival right now. who do you see there? Is it, what does it look like?
Shawn Satterfield: You mean, what is it, what am I, when I have those moments, what am I, as I'm standing there looking out at the crowd and how I'm seeing it?
Erik Weihenmayer: Yeah, tell me what you're seeing when you look out at the crowd. What is it? do you see people of all abilities, all backgrounds, all challenges, all disabilities?
Shawn Satterfield: Everything, all together. Everybody all together. And you have, you know, and that's terrifying. It's terrifying. Not all people are nice. And it's terrifying to like, you know, uh, break down those fences and let everybody just roam and is everybody going to be okay. Man, they all just, it works. I can't explain it.
Um, it just works. And when you're looking out on that floor and you're seeing Individuals in wheelchairs and blind individuals and you wouldn't know if they were deaf, But they're just all right. Everybody's all in one and then we have sensory areas. So there's places where people need to kind of whoa.
I need to take a step back They can still be part of it But oh, I'm away from the lights or I'm not directly in front of this the speakers. There's just different zones. And then what's interesting is the children. That's the fun part. The children just navigate their way into everything. And cause it's, and parents feel a little, relief to let their kids explore.
And when you start watching a child, um, I had a father come up to me, two years ago and said, Man, you gave my daughter a gift I've never been able to give her. And I was like, you know what? What's going on? And he's like, she's been playing with that little girl with Down syndrome for like two hours.
And he said she has no idea that little girl is different than her. And they're having the best time. And he said, I don't know. I don't, I guess I don't know anybody with kids that have Down syndrome. and I feel like really conflicted that I, you know, that my daughter had to come to an event. to be exposed to different types of people.
And he's like, but you've changed not only her life, but my life. And that's the kind of stuff that happens. Or you get people who are, you know, we had our very first festival in 2021. We had a buddy that was helping someone who was blind, and they became best friends. And you just, you start realizing the only difference between those two people is one can see and one can't. They're everything else is the same.
Erik Weihenmayer: Or one likes orange juice without pulp, and one likes orange juice with pulp.
Shawn Satterfield: Exactly. You know what I mean? it doesn't have to be the obvious thing, right? Yeah, and we're all different. That's what also is kind of interesting, the whole neurodiverse topic. I mean, are we not all?
is there such a thing as one, like a brain that works like the same for everyone?
Erik Weihenmayer: I think almost all of us are somewhere on the spectrum.
Shawn Satterfield: That's what I've definitely come to think over the past, five years. I'm like, I think we're all neurodiverse. So, if we can just, like, create spaces where people get to be who they are,and celebrate our uniquenesses,that's what's, that's magic. It's magic and we need that more so now than ever of finding ways to connect with people.
Erik Weihenmayer: So promote the next Shine. who's gonna play and when is it? Yeah,
Shawn Satterfield: it's August 24th. Yeah, August 24th at RealWorks in Rhino. we found our home there last year and could not Just we're so grateful for them. And this year we have Carl Denson.
It's tiny universe. Carl Denson just played with the Rolling Stones here yesterday. Wow, and He's amazing. I've seen him so many times. I just can't believe he's headlining shine And then we'll have the Neil Evans fro down which will have various artists. We're going to actually announce it next week of who all's in that.
but then we, our daytime schedule, so our event's going to be free from 12 to 6. This is the first year that the whole event isn't free and it comes down to what's sustainable, right? In that, for sure, you know, and, and, and, and we want to,
Erik Weihenmayer: You shouldn't feel guilty about that.
Shawn Satterfield: And that's why it was free for so long.
And then it was like, okay, wait a minute. like it's either we implement this or we don't have it. it'll be free though from 12 to six and the inside stage, you have two stages and the inside stage is really focused on youth. And so we have school of rock and Rock and Roll Playhouse, and we have 11 year old DJ, and we're just gonna really give families the opportunity to share music with their kids.
And a lot of times, if they're anything like me, you know, my son was being dragged to shows with me since, he was a baby. So, so, uh, but this was an opportunity. It's It's music that we can all relate to and that the kids can really identify with. And then, um, our Acoustic Avenue stage will have, Corey Simmons and, Joe Bye and Rocky Mountain Guy and a bunch of acoustic, uh, uh, stage.
So it's always a nice place to go sit outside and just sit underneath the awesome Colorado sun and, yeah. I'm excited.
Erik Weihenmayer: You could turn the tides too. You could have the performers also with challenges, right? Like at No Barriers, that's one of the things I really have loved is when we do our, what we call our summits, we've had, folks in, in wheelchairs and amputees, doing these beautiful, dance, choreographed dances, and folks, we had this one guy, sadly he passed away, but he, I, he was just my hero.
His name's Mark Goffany, and, he was missing arms, congenital, congenitally from birth. No arms. And he played the guitar with his toes. He would drive from California to Colorado. And with his feet on the steering wheel. And then he would come in, he would set up the amps, like with his toes, he'd take his shoes off and set up the amps and plug everything in with his toes.
And he would put his guitar up on this kind of mount and he would sit in this chair and he would play the guitar with his toes. And not just strumming, like intricate, beautiful picking. And I'm like,
Shawn Satterfield: That's funny, we have someone like that. His name is Jeffrey Marshall. Yeah, he lives in Denver. Oh, cool. And he plays the bass, and he plays the guitar, and he plays the harmonica. Oh my gosh, amazing, right? Yeah. And it's I just, I remember, we were at Civic Center Park in 2022, and I heard someone, I was walking by, and they go, man, whatever that funk, let's go listen to that funk music playing at that stage.
So I followed them, because I was like, this is gonna be fun. So they were looking, and I was I was standing behind them. And they were like, where's the bass player? And it's because he was on the ground, laying down. And it took him a second. And they were looking around. They go, no way.
And so I got to witness this whole thing. So he has no arms. He has no arms. Yep. He has no arms. He's playing with the stairs too. And we had, yeah. And we had, We had some hula hoopers last year that had prosthetics and yeah, we definitely do our best. we don't pick someone just because they have a disability.
For the same reason that we don't do it, so it's like as long as, you know, hey it's gotta, it's It still is a music festival and we still want to make sure that things align and you don't have someone in the middle of, it's not going to be good for anybody, you don't want anyone walking out and that's a horrible thing.
So we we do, we've been, we're really looking for Daniel's music, Daniel's Foundation out of New York, are you familiar with them? Yeah. A little bit, yeah. They just created a label. And so we're working with them to maybe start highlighting. We want to have a, highlight some of their artists every year.
And they have all different kinds from opera singers to, to pop music. So we definitely, it's something that we, I want to add more into. It's really not.
Erik Weihenmayer: Okay. That's really good. That's good for no barriers. I want to look into that.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah. They're really great organization. they're fantastic.
And, um, they have the day they have the Danny awards every year and It's pretty miraculous. I'm, I was really stoked. I found them because of some agent that I worked with to book a band is on their board and that's how we discovered each other. So it's, we're, it's slowly finding, you know, it's how do you, how do you connect?
And, you know, uh, how do you find individuals that are, And there's a lot of musicians like Billie Eilish has Tourette's and and there's a lot of,David Byrne from the Talking Heads has is on the spectrum and there's a lot of artists out there that have been very vocal about their disabilities. but unfortunately there's a lot that aren't. And
Erik Weihenmayer: yeah.
Shawn Satterfield: and more and more so though, getting it. Yeah.
Erik Weihenmayer: Shawn. I imagine you got your hands full with the festival that you're running. But this is an idea that could be exported around the world. So any thoughts there, like how you might partner with other organizations or something like that, or is that just down the road, maybe?
Shawn Satterfield: No, it's there. I mean, I, uh, My purpose, the whole mission of Shine is to raise awareness for inclusion and accessibility. So if all we're doing is a annual festival here in Denver, we're really not moving that needle forward. And so ultimately the goal is for Shine Music to become obsolete, right?
That everybody, whether it's a music festival or a conference, or you're a retail store, whatever it is, that it's not expensive to take accessibility into account when you do it from the beginning. It's only expensive when you, when it's an afterthought. And when you're building those brand new venues, when you're building the, you know, building those new restaurants, whatnot, making sure that accessibility is front and center in your plans.
Erik Weihenmayer: Wonderful. Now, you run this festival, but that's part of a non profit, 501c3. I think called Shine Music. so you're growing a nonprofit, you're growing a movement. and so you go through all the struggles that every nonprofit goes through. So you have some questions for me, I understand. So maybe we take a few minutes and see if I can answer.
I'm a founder of No Barriers, but I'm not like a development. or marketing expert. But definitely we've learned along the way, and uh, mostly from the mistakes that we've made.
Shawn Satterfield: Man, I'll tell ya, it's, yeah, it's, I hear you on that, and congratulations on finding those teams that allow you to do what you do best and continue to move that forward.
I guess the first question I have is, why did you decide to create No Barriers and not the Erik Weihenmayer, or the retinoschisis. I can't say it. Foundation. Schisis.
Erik Weihenmayer: That's the disease that I, where I went blind.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah.
Erik Weihenmayer: Well, I think because That's all too narrow. it's a funny story. Like, um, I spoke,I was a teacher for six years and then I, decided to be a full time climber.
That was way back in 1997. And, and so I started speaking to a lot of companies doing a lot of motivational, talks and things like that. And I got connected with the bank, Wells Fargo, and they sat me down and they said, Erik, you need to build the Erik Weihenmayer Foundation. And I felt really uncomfortable about that.
I'm like, I'm not John Elway. You know what I mean? I don't want to build the John Elway organization because then when you die, this thing's gone. So if you wrap it around your finger and you try to protect it, then it dies. So I said, let's create, I want to create something beyond me.
And so it was really cool for me to meet two guys, Mark Wellman, who was the first paraplegic to climb El Capitan, this 3, 000 foot vertical rock face. He did that in the eighties, basically did 7, 000 pull ups in eight days. And, I met Hugh Herr, who's a double leg amputee, who's,the head of the biomechatronics laboratory at MIT, and he's a brilliant climber as well. He built these special, prosthetic legs and feet that enable him to rock climb at a high level. And I met these two innovators and it was Mark's idea to say, Hey, we should create this movement where we somehow can teach people who get shattered, who get beat down or shoved to the sidelines, how to find their way back to the world and become the best versions of themselves.
And so for me, I imagine like you, no, no barriers began with mostly questions. How do we build content and a curriculum that helps people break through barriers, tap into the light of the human spirit, what they have inside, whatever you want to call that. And then, figure out a way to elevate the world around them, to elevate their lives and their families and their communities. So all our work came out of those questions. So if you ask the right questions, usually eventually you figure out the answers.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah. Hopefully. Eventually you do. Well, how has no, how has No Barriers evolved then since you first started, since you start, first started asking those questions?
Erik Weihenmayer: You know, and these questions are so good because I am, every time you ask me a question, I bet you're relating to the first time you built Shine.
You know what I mean? Yeah. And so No Barriers was this massive evolution. The first time we just went over to this town, and they wanted to make their town more accessible. And so we just built some activities. We brought a climbing wall, an adaptive climbing wall. We showed off some different hand cycles that paraplegics use to bike with their arms.
We brought tandem bikes. We brought some segways. Hugh talked about his bike. His prosthetic technology. We brought in a few companies that talked about other innovations. I remember we brought in a blind guy named Mike May, amazing technologist who had created and invented a talking GPS system for the blind in a really specific way. Like if you're in a parking lot, It'll say, 30 degrees right to the door,
Shawn Satterfield: Wow.
Erik Weihenmayer: See,
Shawn Satterfield: there's so many great technologies.
Erik Weihenmayer: So many good technologies. But it was just the seed of an idea and then after that it kept growing and growing and now, you know, 20 years later, it's very different.
Shawn Satterfield: Wow, that's awesome. I would guess the, how, this is definitely tied to our biggest struggle, Shine Music's biggest struggle is, how do you persuade people to donate to No Barriers and not the huge non profits like Red Cross? Not that they, not that Red Cross is in it, not to call them out like that, but I think it tends to be people, oh, check that box, United Way, Red Cross, they, you know, it's the easy donation.
Erik Weihenmayer: Well, I think it is building community, right? and so you have this really unique thing that you are creating, and so, um, a lot of people want to know about that. So I think it's just connecting with those right people, right? There's family foundations and passionate music lovers. And, the more you promote that, the more you advocate for that, I think you'll bring more people in and then you got to figure out a way to, to,raise money.
And, you know, raising money, as you mentioned earlier, is two steps forward, one slide back, right? Especially with COVID. COVID has been a really difficult time for people to raise money. But I think, there's so many music lovers out there, and companies that are associated, or, you know, have connections with music and live venues and things like that.
I think it's just, getting those meetings with those companies, with the right people and just talking up how important this organization is and what you're doing is. I think it'll happen for you for sure. Nice. But yeah, no, but it's always, it always is a struggle, right?
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah.
Erik Weihenmayer: When you're a smaller organization. And I have found that when you ask people for money, you just have to be direct about it. Because, people aren't like looking at all the stats and everything. Of course, they want to know that you are well run and that you do have a benefit, an impact in the community.
But a lot of the decisions that people make to sponsor, an event or be a part of an organization,they're done on passion, right? So if you can connect with people's hearts rather than their minds. then I think that's,that's the direction that, where you have a lot of low hanging fruit.
Shawn Satterfield: Good. That's a, that's good. That's a good suggestion. What would you say, I have a bazillion questions I could ask you. One of them that I'm really interested in knowing is what was your biggest hurdle in starting No Barriers? Are there any moments where you questioned your ability to accomplish your mission?
Erik Weihenmayer: Yeah, for sure. like when you build a staff and a community around no barriers, we had, we struggled with finding a leader. I figured I didn't want to be the person that was day to day at the office. I was a better person to be out there in the community, like trying to raise attention and raise money and connect with the right people.
So I was a better ambassador, I think, than a, than an executive director, but yeah, we struggled to find an executive director. We had a person who left after three months and we had somebody who, it just didn't work out. And then we had board members who stepped on and were interim executive directors.
And so finding leadership, is really important. Finding the right leaders and those leaders then build a really good, consistent, loving staff, a team around them that's going to stick with it for a couple years at least so that you have that continuity and you can get all your systems dialed.
Because if you don't have stable leadership and a stable team, it's really hard to grow.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah, yeah, it definitely I mean it's it's it takes a village, right? I mean, it's funny how that statement has carried forward since it was first said. It really does. It's if it's just you, if you're the only one carrying that torch, man, eventually you just you won't be able to do it anymore.
And then all the work that you've put into it and all the progress you've made is justand how, what, how do you build that community? How do you persuade people to connect with your mission, to be on staff, to volunteer?
Erik Weihenmayer: I think in a way that's the easy part, right? Cause people, I do, I think because People will look at what you're doing and they'll go, that is so cool, I want to be involved in that.
But then figuring out a way for them to be involved specifically and making sure that they feel like they're making an impact, right? Because somebody doesn't want to just spin their wheels. They'll get frustrated really fast. So you, so when you bring people aboard, you got to give them ways to win, right?
Ways to feel like they're impacting and making progress. And if they feel that,then you're gonna, they're gonna stick with you. They're gonna be way more consistent, you know? Um, and so we've made those mistakes on our board at No Barriers, where we have, we bring in board members, but we don't have a good role for them.
We don't have a good, reason for them to be on the board. And eventually they're like, Hey, I love the organization, but I'm not really achieving anything. See you later. Yeah. So yeah, make sure you are very specific with the team that you're building and task them with things that they can feel like they're really making that impact.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah. well, everybody always wants to volunteer for the fun stuff. Yeah. Yeah. The hard stuff and the,the stuff that takes a lot of work and a lot of effort. They're no one's really raised. No, not people don't usually raise their hand right out of the gate for that. But again though, I think it's you know, meet people I met someone I don't even know what I lost the ability to know what day it was That was my that's what my long term covid was.
Yeah, like I had no idea what year I just it's either pre covid or post covid but I met her in the airporton our way to Iceland. I was on my way to Iceland to see a concert, and she was on, going to the same concert, and she's a research scientist, and next thing she's on my board. So, you know, you never, I think the universe just puts people in our path, and
Erik Weihenmayer: You move forward with that intention, You're going to find people, you're going to attract people, because you're, I know you're the type that's always just talking up what you're doing and connecting with the right people, so yeah.
Call it the universe, call it whatever, but yeah, those people will find you because you're out there with that intention.
Shawn Satterfield: Have you ever, Tom Shadyax, I Am, I mean, what's his name? Listen, that documentary,
Erik Weihenmayer: no.
Shawn Satterfield: Oh, that's exactly what it's about. You get what you put out and
Erik Weihenmayer: you get what you put out. Yeah.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah.
And it's just it. That has been, I think I watch it every year to remind myself of what it takes to move forward.
Erik Weihenmayer: I'm pretty pragmatic. I'm not like the kind that's like. Oh, you ask the universe and the universe answers. I'm not convinced,on that front, but for sure, when you're moving out there with intention and, and you have, a great idea like you do, and it's well run, you're going to attract those people.
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah.
Erik Weihenmayer: How about another question before we, before we take off here?
Shawn Satterfield: Yeah, so let's talk about aligned sponsors. On one hand you are willing to take money from anyone, but how are you, how do you find those aligned sponsors that believe in your mission and not just wanting to put their name on your brand?
Erik Weihenmayer: Well, if they want to put their name on your brand, I think that's fine.
Shawn Satterfield: That makes them automatically aligned.
Erik Weihenmayer: Sure. Sure. Why not? Yeah. I mean, you know, you got to be flexible about it, right? Like they're wonderful organizations and companies that make toilet paper. And you're like, that's not very glamorous, but it's an important thing.
We all use toilet paper. Right. So there's nobility in that. So yeah, there's, so it doesn't have to be necessarily a sponsor that, that's directly connected with the music industry, right? It can just be an organization that wants to promote the idea of inclusivity. Sometimes even companies want to shine the message back on their own team that they're building, saying, Hey, we want to be a more inclusive culture.
So we'll learn from each other. We'll turn the mirror back and forth on each other. And, we'll connect with this wonderful idea. We'll support this wonderful work, and then we will become a better team as a result. So I think that's what you're looking for.
Shawn Satterfield: Nice, nice. I appreciate that. I appreciate all your input and as someone who,I think the first time I ever, really kind of dove into you and No Barriers was the, the view from my window.
Erik Weihenmayer: From my window, yeah. Our ambassador. Melissa Simpson, who's an amazing woman, lives up in Leadville, and we, uh, her No Barriers pledge was to climb a mountain. she got set up with this amazing device called a, oh, dang, what is that, called? Alright, Didrik, cut it. Cut that piece, because I'm an idiot.
I can't remember what. It's a device that's, that's built by this amazing MIT engineer and you crank it with your arms. And so we were all around her, about 15 of us, and we helped her get to the summit of this peak outside of Leadville. And it's, uh, we, we wanted to call it Mount Melissa. but, because it didn't have a name, but they, the park service said you have to be dead for 20 years before we name a peak after you, Oh, that's interesting. Melissa was not ready to do that.
Shawn Satterfield: No, I think it was perfect because that's exactly it, when you, when the first shot of Melissa looking out that window, her windows were really high up, in her house, and so all she could see from her chair was the top, and, and I feel like the name of that is perfect, but so it's been a real honor to, to talk with you and to pick your brain about, how to keep shine music moving forward and, and learn from your experience.
Erik Weihenmayer: I think we can learn from each other because I think in a way, what we're doing, we're kindred spirits, right? so we need to connect and learn from each other. And, and so yeah, I welcome that and make this just part one of many, adventures together. Okay.
Shawn Satterfield: Count me in. Count me in.
Erik Weihenmayer: All right.
Thanks, Shawn. Appreciate it. No barriers to everyone.
Music: The production team behind this podcast includes producer Didrik Johnck, that's me, and audio engineer Tyler Kottman. Special thanks to the Dan Ryan Band for our intro song, Guidance. And thanks to all of you for listening. If you enjoyed this show, please subscribe, share it, and hey, we'd be thrilled for a review. Show notes can be found at NoBarriersPodcast.com. There's also a link there to shoot me an email with any suggestions or guest ideas for the show. Thanks so much and have a great day.
See.
